'Jurassic World', Assistant Art Director, Sam Avila

0:09Jawad MirSame.

0:09Sam AvilaYeah.

0:09Jawad MirPretty much the same. Yeah. Has the strike been, affecting at all to you guys yet, or is it still... I would imagine it is.

0:18Sam AvilaI mean, it always affects, I think, everyone in some way or another, but thankfully I'm able to keep working right now.

0:26Jawad MirOkay. Well…

0:27Sam AvilaSo that's awesome

0:28Jawad Mir... That's good.

0:29Sam AvilaYeah. But I know it's…

0:30Jawad MirThat's…

0:30Sam Avila... Very few and far between.

0:33Jawad MirYeah, I think last time we talked was when it was in the initial weeks or so when The G… Guardians of the Galaxy came out.

0:41Sam AvilaYes.

0:41Jawad MirAnd, I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised that it's gone this far.

0:46Sam AvilaSame. Same.

0:48Jawad MirYeah, I don't see any end in sight. The way it looks to me, it just feels like the studios are gonna win out, but I hope I'm, I'm ho… I'm wrong.

0:58Sam AvilaI know. I don't, I don't even wanna look in the crystal ball anymore. I'm kinda just, like, nose to the grindstone, just keep working.

1:07Jawad MirYeah.

1:07Sam AvilaHopefully, hope for the best for everybody all around. But I don't even... I don't know. We're not hearing really anything either, so we're just, like, very grateful to just keep working.

1:21Jawad MirSo are you allowed to work outside of, the associations, or are you can't do that? Just so that I get clarity on that. Like, are you able to do stuff outside of the union at all, or no?

1:36Sam AvilaOh, sure, yeah. So we're, right now we're prepping, so we're in a separate union entirely. So…

1:42Jawad MirAh

1:42Sam Avila... SAG-AFTRA is actors, stunts…

1:45Jawad MirYeah

1:46Sam Avila... Puppeteers, et cetera. And…

1:48Jawad MirSo you're not affected by it at all at least?

1:51Sam AvilaNo, I mean, w… we're, we're as part of the IATSE crew are affected only in that, like, other films can't keep going without the actors or without stunts or without the writers. But…

2:03Jawad MirRight

2:03Sam Avila... Thankfully, yeah, we're able to keep going with our script. And, you know, eventually there will come a time when we will need actors. But for right now we're able to keep prepping, as an art department, which has been awesome, just awesome.

2:21Jawad MirThat's good. Well, the interesting thing is when things do get back to normal, I mean, there... I don't know if we've hit that point where there's lack of films…

2:30Sam AvilaYeah

2:31Jawad Mir... In, you know, being released or in post-production. There'll be that void, and then it will be kinda like COVID, like, everything is gonna come out around, you know, on top of each other, and then it's gonna be a whole mess again.

2:42Sam AvilaYeah.

2:43Jawad MirBut you know the nature of business, I guess.

2:47Sam AvilaI think so. Yeah, that's kinda how we're seeing it, and it's funny. My coworker and I were talking that, you know, say that happens. There are so many shows and movies I still have on my list to watch, older films or other TV shows. So if it happens, in a way it'd be nice to just catch up with some of the stuff I've been…

3:09Jawad MirYeah

3:09Sam Avila... Wanting to watch for ages. But of course we want all of our friends to get back to work. I mean, so many people I know are out of work. And the last time it was like this was during COVID.

3:21Jawad MirYeah. What stuff, have you been meaning to catch up on? What shows and films?

3:27Sam AvilaOh, my gosh.

3:27Jawad MirJust out of curiosity.

3:28Sam AvilaOh, my gosh. I've been catching up on a lot actually right now, but oh, my gosh, so many old films. I always love going down the, like, top 100 films in history list…

3:40Jawad MirYeah

3:40Sam Avila... And checking off the ones I haven't seen. Like, what did I see? I still haven't seen, Flashdance. I haven't seen,.. Oh, my gosh. It's, like, a lot of those movies that are on the, like, everybody's top list that I just haven't seen yet. Horror films, a lot of horror films, 'cause, you know, it's in that…

3:59Jawad MirYeah

3:59Sam Avila... Season. So I haven't seen, like... Oh, wait, I did see Pumpkinhead, but I haven't seen recent ones like Barbarian, Pearl. So yeah, like, the list goes on and on, where it just starts building up. And I'm trying to power through some stuff, but man, like... And then you have other stuff's coming out now. Like, Loki season two's coming out I'm excited for. I'm trying to think, like, what other, what other, things are coming out.

4:30Jawad MirHave you seen, in the top 100, I'm sure it's in the top 100, it's kinda like a s… it's not really a horror, but it's, like, a s… supernatural comedy, Ghost?

4:40Sam AvilaGhost, like the British version?

4:42Jawad MirNo, the Demi Moore, Patrick Swayze, Whoopi Goldberg one.

4:45Sam AvilaOh.

4:46Jawad MirThe one that ca…

4:47Sam AvilaYes, I adore Ghost. I love Ghost. I love that theme song. I love everything. Yes, I have seen…

4:53Jawad MirYeah

4:53Sam Avila... I have seen Ghost. I need to rewatch that. That's a good one for the kids.

4:56Jawad MirYeah. I haven't seen it in a long time. I actually saw a horror movie just recently. It came out…

5:02Sam AvilaYeah

5:02Jawad Mir... In 2002. I remember everybody talked about it. I never did, and I didn't even know what it was about. Jeepers Creepers.

5:10Sam AvilaOh, gosh, and you didn't know what it was about? I…

5:12Jawad MirI had, I had no clue. I didn't even know where the f… it just kept going this way, that way, and complete shocks and surprises.

5:22Sam AvilaYeah. I mean…... There's, there's a few that it's kinda nice going in without knowing.

5:28Jawad MirNot knowing, yeah.

5:30Sam AvilaSometimes and you're... And then you go, "What in God's name is going on? What am I watching right now?"

5:36Jawad MirYeah.

5:36Sam AvilaI did see, not horror, but I watched recently, this TV show on BritBox called Staged…

5:47Jawad MirOkay

5:47Sam Avila... With David Tennant and Michael Sheen, and it takes place during COVID, and it is so hilarious. I just haven't laughed that hard in so long. And it was... And it just, like, this whole working from home, it just kinda wrapped up, like, all this tension and feelings that everybody had, and…

6:05Jawad MirYeah

6:05Sam Avila... The film industry and speaking to, you know, talent. It actually is quite…... Poignant right now just because of what the actors are going through and, but anyway, so yeah, I have a long list, but I'm trying to catch up little by little, and when people recommend something now, I'm like, "Okay, great, I'll add it to the list," because I can't just…

6:28Jawad MirYeah, I know, it's a big list, it just, nowadays everything is, there's so much of it, right? It, you know, it, I mean…

6:34Sam AvilaLike, I'm even looking at your books down there, your list of books…... I'm like, "Which ones have I seen? Okay, I've seen that," you know?

6:43Jawad MirHave you seen Dead Man Walking?

6:45Sam AvilaOh, another one I adore, yes.

6:47Jawad MirYeah, that…

6:47Sam AvilaI read the book, love it.

6:49Jawad MirYeah. I saw that again after a long time, and boy, what a, what an incredible film that was. Yeah, I…

6:58Sam AvilaAnd that soundtrack is…

7:00Jawad MirOh

7:00Sam Avila... Beautiful.

7:02Jawad MirI actually spoke to David Robbins, who, is Tim Robbins' brother…

7:06Sam AvilaOh

7:06Jawad Mir... Who composed the music, and there's an artist, I don't know if you're familiar with him, who does the, all the background vocals. He's originally from Pakistan. I grew up watching him.

7:18Sam AvilaReally?

7:18Jawad MirAnd so he actually sang with, what's their name, Bruce Springsteen, he had an album with, Peter Gabriel…

7:26Sam AvilaOoh

7:26Jawad Mir... And that's how they discovered him. And then he passed away a few years later. But the Dead Man Walking soundtrack is incredible. It's absolutely incredible.

7:34Sam AvilaOh, that was one of the early soundtracks that I purchased, 'cause it's just…

7:39Jawad MirYeah

7:39Sam Avila... And I still love soundtracks, but that was back when you could just get CDs, and

7:43Jawad MirYep

7:43Sam Avila... But oh, that's such a good reminder. Yes, I did love that film. I need t… I need to watch that film again. See, I need to add, I need like a, another list, like a rewatch list as well. You know? There's so many great films, like, just even looking at your, yeah, that like, and your books where I'm like, yeah, E.T. I haven't... I love it, and I listen to the soundtrack all the time, but I would love to watch it again.

8:11Jawad MirYeah. Yeah

8:12Sam Avila... Gladiator, yeah, absolutely. Yeah…

8:15Jawad MirYeah, there were some great films back in the time. I mean, there still are, but I don't know, maybe we've outgrown the stuff that comes out now. I just find stuff is very different. But in any case, you know, y… what are you, before I go into your work on Jurassic World…

8:30Jawad Mir... Anything that you're working on that you're able to disclose?

8:34Sam AvilaThe only thing I can disclose, I'm working on Superman, the, DC James Gunn, yeah. So…

8:42Jawad MirNice

8:43Sam Avila... It's in a lot of, with a lot of the same team from Guardians, which is great. And that's no, that's no secret. That's, still out…

8:52Jawad MirFantastic

8:53Sam Avila... In the papers. But that's all I can say. But it is…

8:56Jawad MirThat's fine. Good for you. Good for you. You must be excited.

9:00Sam AvilaOh, so excited. It's awesome. I can't say anything about it, I'm just very excited.

9:05Jawad MirYeah, that's fine. I completely understand. Let's talk about your role on Jurassic, World. You worked on the first one, right? The first Jurassic…

9:16Sam AvilaThe first Jurassic World, yes.

9:17Jawad MirYeah.

9:18Sam AvilaSo that was the reboot with, Chris Pratt and Bryce Dallas.

9:20Jawad MirYeah. Tell me how you got on board on that film and your role and your day-to-day job. You know, I don't like to use the word the job, but it was a job, you know, because it is something that you love as well. So…

9:35Sam AvilaYes

9:35Jawad Mir... What was that like?

9:38Sam AvilaIt was, it was a strange beginning actually. So I had worked with, this art department coordinator, Michael Piccirillo. He was an art department coordinator at the time. He's now an assistant art director. And, I worked with him on Saving Mr. Banks.

9:58Sam AvilaAnd, Jurassic, there were inklings about it, and that was probably in 2013 that I remember hearing about it, and Michael knew I was a big fan of Jurassic, and as soon as I heard about it, he was getting on it. I wrote to him and I was like, "If there's any way, I would absolutely love to be a part of this. I'll do anything." and I think that's what happened. So, needless to say, I got a call to come in to interview, with the supervising art director. And got the job, thankfully, was terrified. I was so nervous that I wasn't the right fit, I wasn't, good enough, and, I got it, and I was overjoyed because Jurassic Park is one of my, if not…

10:52Jawad MirYeah

10:53Sam Avila... Top three films that influenced what I do and, I still adore to this day. And, then was on the film. We were working in LA prepping, and it was very fast-paced. It was, we gotta go. They were starting to ship stuff to Hawaii, people to Hawaii, and then within two weeks it shut down, and I was devastated. I was so sad, and I was still pretty early on in my career, and, so very sad. And they said, "Shut down indefinitely," and so I went and worked with a designer I'd worked with before, Michael Cornblith, on Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day, and went and did that. And then I know it was about a year that went by, and then Jurassic came back up, and I got the call again, and of course, I was 100% in, and that's what really kickstarted it.

12:01Sam AvilaSo it came from working with people on a previous film who then got on this film… ... And were thankfully able to put my name in the hat. And, but like I said, a little rollercoaster, ups and downs and you just never know sometimes with film. Just 'cause it didn't work out then doesn't mean it's not gonna…

12:22Jawad MirYeah

12:23Sam Avila... Work out in the future.

12:25Jawad MirYeah. I think, I think you and I talked about this very briefly when I was talking to you about Guardians of the Galaxy, but you gave me a little bit more detailed version. And, you know, I've, I've always sort of, being in the industry myself, you know, there's that element of showing interest in what you want to do, but also not showing so much interest that you sound desperate.

12:45Sam AvilaYeah.

12:45Jawad MirYou know? How, and how did you or how... Did you even think about not sounding desperate, that I'll do whatever on Jurassic World? Was it just one of those things, or did you even think about that? Like, how do you balance that, you know, or if you did at all at that time?

13:03Sam AvilaOh, man. That's such a good question. I feel that internally I was overselling it. But sometimes when I've talked to people externally, they say, "Oh, I had no idea you were nervous," or, "Oh, I had no idea that you were that, excited about something." I think this just goes general rule for me, because I still get very excited when I'm around certain people or I'm a big nerd and so, you know, certain things come up and I get very excited. But then in my mind, I also tell myself to keep it professional. So you can be very excited, but when you're going in for an interview, you can show your enthusiasm and say, you know, "I really enjoy and I loved this property and I would love to be a part of it," and just be very honest about that. But don't, don't turn into kind of the, I've seen people do this…

14:01Jawad MirYeah

14:01Sam Avila... Where they kind of turn into a little bit of a kid, and they get, like, so excited and so it's like you're not at a Comic-Con, you're in for an interview. I appreciate people's enthusiasm, and so I do think it means something, just don't hold it in, don't hold back, because you don't know if that person you're interviewing with is also a fan. And I found that people would rather have somebody on a crew that is excited about a property than somebody who just looks at it as another job, and I don't really care.

14:33Jawad MirYeah.

14:34Sam AvilaSo I think it's important to show enthusiasm, but also, be professional and respectful, I think is... And I know that's hard to, hard to quantify…

14:47Jawad MirIt…

14:47Sam Avila... In a few words.

14:48Jawad MirYeah. Well, it's interesting, right? I mean, if not you per se, but anybody for example, if they got the job because they thought of their passion or, you know, their excitement, but if they didn't get the job, then you wonder did you oversell yourself?

15:05Sam AvilaWell…

15:05Jawad Mir... You know, and then also it's that then you're also kind of playing, if you're, if you're showing a lot of desperation, for the lack of better word… ... Then you're also giving the other party the control over your salary and your hours and all that stuff too. So it is a tough thing to deal with, because you gotta control, especially, you know, in your sense, you know, I can imagine, Jurassic Park is my favorite film by far.

15:29Jawad MirAnd, you know, just controlling that of, but using that to your advantage, that this is why I became who I became because of this film, and I would love to be part of it. It's…

15:39Sam AvilaWell…

15:39Jawad Mir... An interesting dilemma. It's an interesting dilemma that we all go through, I think.

15:44Sam AvilaI think so. No matter what industry you're in, if you worked really hard and you are willing to do anything, but also you should never be taken advantage of. And this is something spoke about with some colleagues recently as well, just that we've all paid our dues, we've all worked on low to no budget stuff, and we've all climbed the ladder, but, that doesn't... A… and you have that, like, passion project that you just would do anything for, but at the same time, if there's red flags or if somebody's taking advantage of you or something, it's, your self-worth is not worth getting treated poorly or getting taken advantage of. But in terms of just even going in for the interview, I think the excitement can definitely be there, and I've definitely been made fun of. I will say that there's that fear too, that it's like, you know, somebody going, "Oh, God, you're such a nerd about this stuff." But there's always somebody who appreciates it, and you'll find…

16:43Jawad MirExactly

16:44Sam Avila... The people. Yeah. And I think it will get appreciated eventually. And I remember being very insecure, and sometimes I still am very insecure at, like, specifically Jurassic. And so I would hide a lot of my enthusiasm, I think purposefully, 'cause I didn't wanna be seen as, yeah, somebody that they don't want around 'cause they're too much of a fan.

17:11Jawad MirYeah

17:12Sam Avila... And so, I guess I do. Now that you say it, I'm like, maybe I do hide it in a little bit every now and again where I don't get super excited, but I think…

17:22Jawad MirIt…

17:22Sam Avila... I've found my people, and there's a lot of, a lot of fans who work on films as well, and so we get to kinda nerd out, at work as well about that stuff. So I really appreciate and enjoy that environment, that creative environment.

17:39Jawad MirYeah. I mean, if it, if it's working for you, then you keep doing it, and if it stops working with, for you, then you shift it a little bit, right?

17:47Sam AvilaYeah.

17:47Jawad MirAnd, that's good. That's, that's, that's super. And your responsibilities on Jurassic World… ... What were they? What were you working on? Yeah, like, what were you working on? Who were you working with? What were your day-to-day responsibilities?

18:06Sam AvilaYeah. So I was the assistant art director on Jurassic World. So as an assistant art director is kind of exactly what it sounds like. There are art directors who are in charge of a set, and as an assistant art director, I assist them with,... Things that they need or with what the art department needs. And so in a little bit more detail, a lot of that, entails for an assistant art director on a big film like that, very heavy into materials and hardware. And then stage plans sometimes, so you're shifting around as the schedule changes or as you're trying to figure out what can fit on what stage, taking plans from the set designers who draw the sets, and putting them onto stage plans to see how they fit or how many sets you can fit on one stage. And so we were in New Orleans, for Jurassic World, for anybody who doesn't know, and we were working out of this NASA, this, old NASA facility.

19:16Sam AvilaActually, I think they still build rockets there, which is very cool. And so we as an art department were there. I worked in New Orleans only. I didn't go to Hawaii. There was an art director who was there. I, as an art director on Jurassic, I worked very heavily with the art director who did Main Street, which was Krista Monroe, who is…

19:40Sam Avila... Incredible, and she took on such a m… an amazing and large task with that set. And of course, our amazing designer Ed Vereau and supervising art director Doug Meardink, were very heavy-handed in all these sets. So I was very much mainly on Main Street with a lot of the materials, a lot of the hardware, 'cause if you think about all those buildings, I mean, we created that stuff from scratch. A lot of people think that we went and shot inside of the, what was it? The amusement park…

20:18Jawad MirThe park itself?

20:19Sam Avila... That's there. Yeah.

20:20Jawad MirYeah.

20:20Sam AvilaThere's a, the broken down amusement park that's there, the Six Flags. And everybody thinks we shot in there, but we did not. It was scouted. Everything was built from scratch in the parking lot of Six Flags.

20:34Jawad MirOh, wow.

20:34Sam AvilaSo, yeah, there was nothing there. All built and then taken down after filming. So that was Main Street, and that was everything from the exterior visitors center all the way down the boardwalk, take a right, and then there was the Havaianas and all the shops that were there. And then so that was a lot of my work, was working directly with Krista, but I also assisted, Scott Plauche, who did, he was the art director on the interior visitors center, which was also very cool.

21:08Sam Avila... Krista also did the old visitors center, which was the one that was overgrown, that was literally the visitors center from Jurassic Park, just overgrown, which I 100% nerded out on. I was so excited to work on that. And then gosh, there were so many... Katie Maxy was the art director who went to Hawaii. How many d… I feel like I'm forgetting somebody in here. But we had such an incredible crew, and so I was, like I said, working with materials and hardware.

21:41Jawad MirSure.

21:41Sam AvilaBut then assistant art director, sometimes you're going to, the set designers, and you're trying to get information from them, what do they need? How can I assist them with their drawings, finding the hardware, finding a wallpaper or material that can fit within their, wall or their door that they're, they're doing. Another one that was really great was the raptor paddock, I believe it was called. And

22:14Sam Avila... George Lee was the set designer, and one of the things I was able to find as an assistant art director, I remember they came to us, and, I think it was Doug who may have came and said, "Okay, I need, I n… I need something for that part in the script where they hold the raptors so that they can, you know, that they can do their vet stuff on them." And it was one of those where it's like, "Don't know what it is. We need to find something out there, maybe something from the farm industry." So it was this crazy dive into finding all about, finding out all about cow... I wonder what they call them, like, cow containers. There's a word for it. When they have to give vaccines to cows, they put them in this…

22:57Jawad MirOkay

22:57Sam Avila... Cage to keep them safe and to keep them s… steady and sturdy. So we got one of those. I was, like, calling all these places in Texas, all these farm, places that had this equipment. And so it was things like that sometimes where you go, "I don't know what this could be. Hey, assistant art director, can you go take a dive down the internet rabbit hole and see what's out there that we could get that could be cool to put a velociraptor in?" and then once that's found, you can take that to the art director and the set designer, and they will put it in the drawing and see how it fits, and see what adjustments need to be made.

23:37Jawad MirOh, nice.

23:39Sam AvilaSo sorry, Mike. Yeah.

23:41Jawad MirThat's okay. That's okay.

23:43Sam AvilaSo yeah, that was, tho… those in a nutshell, that's assistant art director duties on a big film like that.

23:51Jawad MirDid you come, were you ever at, in the presence of the animatronics of any dinosaur?

24:00Sam AvilaThe animatronic, not the animatronics, 'cause the one that they did was in Hawaii, which was such a bummer.

24:08Jawad MirOkay.

24:08Sam AvilaThe one thing I wasn't…

24:09Jawad MirI know, I know. I was just curious because, you know, dinosaurs, and I think the finale…

24:13Sam AvilaOh

24:13Jawad Mir... Was around the exterior of the whole park too, where you guys built, so I was wondering, because I don't think any of that stuff was animatronics. I think that was all CG. Maybe some of the raptors were. I could be wrong. But…

24:28Sam AvilaWell, we had these heads. What was really cool

24:32Jawad MirYeah

24:33Sam Avila... I believe it was Legacy had made And they do this on a lot of films. If there's a creature or something that they need a reference of…

24:40Jawad MirYeah

24:40Sam Avila... They'll do a physical maquette. So we had a physical maquette of, I believe, Blue. And I know we had a few of the other ones, and they did animatronics in Hawaii. But the ra… the thing that I loved so much were the people who played the, raptors. They were... I don't know if anybody's seen the behind the scenes, like the gray suits, and they had the half…

25:02Jawad MirYeah

25:02Sam Avila... Gray heads. And they're all, like, running around like acting like raptors, and it was actually kind of cool, 'cause you could see the way that these performers were acting was so raptor-like. And they had these half heads, and you're like, "Yeah, okay, I believe that." so yeah, we didn't, we didn't have the animatronics in the way that the other Jurassic Park films had them. I've gotten to work with some of the people who were on Jurassic Park, and trust me when I say I definitely nerd out with them. I'm like, "Tell me everything." Like, "Tell me a… any c… any set story. I'll take anything."

25:41Jawad MirYeah

25:41Sam Avila... Like Laura Palazzi is an art director I've worked with, and she was on the original Jurassic Park. And, gosh, the stories that she has, is just awesome. I just, like my eyes light up every time she starts talking about it. But yeah, sorry, I'm totally detouring here.

26:02Jawad MirNo, that's, that's fine. The, you should read this book, which I haven't read in a long time, and I need to get it, because I used to own it, and I don't know what happened to it. It was the very first time I think an actual making of book came out, The Making of Jurassic Park. It was about thinner than this.

26:19Sam AvilaOh.

26:19Jawad MirAnd it had, it had like all the color photos behind the scenes, and then there was a like, I think because the film became so popular, they came out like with an hour and a half documentary, which I think you can find on YouTube. But yeah, that making of book was something really special, because I remember going through it and reading it at the time when it came out. So if you might find e… interesting stories in there, and I'm gonna grab one too. I gotta look at it on eBay or on Amazon, to grab one.

26:45Sam AvilaOh. I'm gonna look for that, 'cause I may have had that, and that's a funny story. So that documentary that came out, it must have been, I know I was in middle school, so whenever year that was in the '90s.

26:59Jawad Mir'93.

27:00Sam AvilaI'll say... Huh?

27:01Jawad Mir'93 or '94, the documentary came out, I think.

27:05Sam AvilaOh my gosh. So I remember, distinctly remember being in art class, and I don't know if the teacher was just like, "I just need to put something on," or if it was a substitute teacher. I remember them playing that documentary, and it was one of the first times, because I had loved Jurassic Park so much growing up, it was one of the first times that I looked at it and went, "Wait, these people get to build dinosaurs?" Like, there's an art department…... They build? And it, I remember like that was a distinct moment that it changed my trajectory, where I was like, "That's what I wanna do." I mean, obviously I'm not doing creature design, but it wa…

27:43Jawad MirYeah

27:44Sam Avila... It pushed me towards the art department for sure as it was, defining moment in my life.

27:52Jawad MirIt's funny you mention that, because the day Jurassic Park came out, I mean, there was a whole story of how it led up to me getting aware about Jurassic Park.

28:01Sam AvilaRight.

28:01Jawad MirAnd I never saw the film until it came on VHS 16 months after.

28:06Sam AvilaOh.

28:06Jawad MirBut I remember, but I remember Entertainment Tonight, you know how they used to do like on a Friday, like the movie thing?

28:14Sam AvilaYeah. Yeah.

28:14Jawad MirAnd they went around, I'm guessing it was LA, like asking people what they thought.

28:19Sam AvilaYeah.

28:20Jawad MirAnd they were... I've been looking for this clip, and I can't find it. There was this woman standing with a kid.

28:26Sam AvilaYeah.

28:26Jawad MirAnd she said, "Spielberg is a genius." And that was it. That's when I became aware of Spielberg, and that was when my trajectory shifted completely…

28:35Sam AvilaReally?

28:35Jawad Mir... In that direction. It's just so, that moment, the way you mentioned about the do… is embedded in my head. And bunch of newspapers I used to own when the movie came out. It's, it's just crazy how many people that film has influenced. It's incredibly amazing.

28:51Sam AvilaI just read something recent. That's so interesting, 'cause Spielberg is a genius. You wanna talk about…

28:55Jawad MirHe is

28:55Sam Avila... Someone who I will nerd out on and probably like try to like be professional with, be Spielberg, meeting him, I would g… I would oof, bow like all the praises. I read recently this article about, and I know that this is true, because of there was an HBO documentary on Spielberg that he wasn't fully…

29:14Jawad MirYeah, I saw that.

29:15Sam AvilaYeah, right? That he wasn't taken seriously as a director because he was doing blockbuster films. And, you know, growing up with him, that never even occurred to me. I just always saw him as a genius. But that they wouldn't let him, the studio maybe wouldn't let him direct Schindler's List without Jurassic Park in the can first. And I, and like I still see that to this day, and I go, "You know, this is somebody I've looked up to since I w… was like out of the womb," you know? And to think that somebody as great as him still is being judged, you know, by this industry and the kind of films that he makes, which I still don't think is like, you know, when we talk about blockbuster films, there's still a lot of heart to it, and there's so much heart to his that influenced how I see the world, to be honest. And, to see somebody like that and think historically that he was so judged, and then when Jurassic Park came out it like changed everything, it still blows my mind.

30:23Sam AvilaI'm like, how did they not think he was a genius, you know?

30:27Jawad MirIt's, i… you know, it's funny because I don't know anybody in the history of filmmaking who came out with two distinctlively, distinctively different films in the same ti… year and swept the Oscars. And what's… What's mind-boggling to me, have you ever seen The Color Purple?

30:47Sam AvilaYes.

30:48Jawad MirOkay.

30:48Sam AvilaYes.

30:49Jawad MirI don't know how he was not taken seriously. I mean, there is that scene in that film when the two sisters are being separated.

30:57Sam AvilaYes.

30:58Jawad MirAnd I saw that again recently, and that scene, holy moly, I mean, it... I don't know anybody on this planet that is not gonna get gut-wrenched. Like, it's, you cannot, it… I don't even know how they did not take him seriously as a dramatic filmmaker, because Color Purple did that.

31:16Sam AvilaYeah.

31:17Jawad MirI mean, if you take out the entire film as not that great, which it was, and just even focus on that scene, y… you have to be made of rock not to sh… you know… ... Have a tear in your eye.

31:27Sam AvilaYeah. His humanity in all the films that he brings, including Jurassic Park, his, like, it, as I said, it influenced, honestly, I think the kind of person I am, how I see the world, how you treat people, how you treat…

31:45Sam Avila... Art. I was one of those people who loved, The Fabelmans. I…

31:52Jawad MirYeah, I loved it too

31:53Sam Avila... Oh, I loved it so much. I related to it. I related to it so much so that I was like, that childhood part of me that's like, "Spielberg, you are my everything," like, just reignited. 'Cause I was like, I know what it feels like, where this art, this thing that we're doing means everything to me.

32:14Jawad MirSo much, yeah.

32:15Sam AvilaSo much.

32:17Jawad MirIt's amazing. It's amazing.

32:19Sam AvilaYeah. I love it. I'm just looking at, like, your Indiana Jones. Oh my God, I could talk about…... Indiana Jones. I went to Jordan this year.

32:26Jawad MirOh, did you?

32:27Sam AvilaMainly for the reason to go see Petra because of Indiana Jones.

32:31Jawad MirI was gonna, yeah, I was gonna ask you, is that what you went for?

32:34Sam AvilaYes, that's what I went for, but I have to say, Jordan is an incredible country and just…

32:39Jawad MirYeah

32:39Sam Avila... The people, the desert, the food, the history, my God. Just I went north to south, and it was, if anybody's questioning going to Jordan, I went by myself, just so you know. I went with, like, a little tour group, but traveled by myself. Do it. You can do it. Put it on your list.

32:57Jawad MirYeah, I've been meaning to go to Jordan and Morocco, for quite some time. Morocco is another good place for tourism, and it's relatively economically cheaper to spend money there in terms of food…

33:08Sam AvilaOh

33:09Jawad Mir... And yeah. But yeah, I mean, again, going back to Spielberg, he's just, there's one, I remember you were talking about his humanity. I'm kind of going off topic here, but, you know, it's just one of those things.

33:22Sam AvilaYeah.

33:22Jawad MirHe, Schindler's List, it premiered on NBC after it won the Oscars, I think it was late '93, and it was a sh… it was gonna be commercial-free. Like, they were not gonna have any commercials, and Spielberg did this intro, and he said these words, and that, something that stuck with me the way you talked about the humanity part is, like, "Not everybody is born with hatred."

33:46Sam AvilaOh.

33:46Jawad Mir"You acquire hat… you acquire hatred." I mean, obviously he was talking about the Nazis and, you know, all the, all the stuff that they had done and the chara… the ra… the character that Ra… Ralph Fiennes played. But yeah, that is so true, it's that, you know, you're not born, you don't think about those things. You're not born with hate. Like, you know, and you're not necessarily even born with love, maybe. I don't know. But I'm just, you know, the fact that you can just say something like that and despite the fact that he belonged to a community that went through per… persecution, and he was able to give that s… seldom objectivity to a character, I mean, that to me is, like, great respect.

34:26Sam AvilaOh, God. I didn't know he said that. That just makes my day. I just love that so much, 'cause that's exactly how I, the things I believe as well, and that humanity, man, the things that he says, and just like you said, how he treats characters, n… f… fictional and real ones that he's done, he treats them all real.

34:47Jawad MirYeah.

34:48Sam AvilaAnd that's what I love about that, and I, and I see that in other directors now. You know, I do think the reason Guardians 3 did so well is James is so good at telling that human story as well, in a tree, in a raccoon. Like, these characters that you dis… you suspend your disbelief about them being real because they're so real as it, we relate to them, as humanly as possible because that's a great, that's what a great storyteller is, and so…

35:22Jawad Mir100%.

35:24Sam AvilaYeah.

35:24Jawad Mir100%.

35:25Sam AvilaI love that.

35:25Jawad MirAnd on Jurassic World, what scenes, oh, it's not, sorry, what scenes, how long were you there, how long were you worked on this, on the film for? Was, even whether it was broken into different segments or continuously?

35:40Sam AvilaOh, I've never t… totaled it up. Usually on a film like that, I think it's between seven to eight months. I believe I flew there in February of 2014. Yes, I flew there in February of 2014, and then I finished in end of June or July, and then I went, because I remember I flew to Boston to do The Finest Hours after that, if anybody's seen that film. Another great film and filmmakers. And so gosh, so what would that, would that make it? Yeah, it's five plus a few months on the, or a few weeks on the back end from the earlier iteration. But that's as an assistant art director. I know that, Krista, oh, I may, I'm sorry. I take it back. I was working in LA a bit on Jurassic, I think in January of that year…

36:36Sam Avila... Before I traveled. But even before then, the designer is on longer, the supervising art director and some of the art directors can be on longer…... Than an assistant. Assistant is usually brought on a few months in because they've developed some of the sets, the concepts by then. And then s… that's when they really start to crew up.

36:58Jawad MirGot it. You should also, you must have heard of The Ultimate Visual History of Jurassic World, the book that came out last year?

37:07Sam AvilaNo, I did not hear about this. The Ultimate…

37:09Jawad MirOh. It's, there is a series called Ultimate Visual History. There is a bunch of films that have been made on it.

37:18Sam AvilaOh.

37:18Jawad MirThere's Jurassic World trilogy, and there's even Jurassic Park trilogy.

37:23Sam AvilaOh my gosh.

37:24Jawad MirSo here. So it's this.

37:27Sam AvilaWhat the sh…

37:27Jawad MirAnd it has, like, ridiculous amount of sketch work, stories, storyboards. I mean, I don't know if you can see it.

37:35Sam AvilaOh, wow.

37:37Jawad MirYeah.

37:37Sam AvilaThis is so cool.

37:38Jawad MirIt's totally, it's totally worth getting this one, and then there's a Jurassic Park one too, like Jurassic World trilogy and Jurassic Park trilogy.

37:46Sam AvilaOh my gosh. I'm gonna have to tell our crewmates. That's so cool. I saw the map in there. So Ellen Lampel, who's one of my good friends, she designed the Jurassic World map, and we just still to this day talk about, like, how crazy it is. Like, fans are making T-shirts out of it, and maps, and it's like, "You made, you made that map." Like, how cool is that? That is awesome. I had no idea that these books existed. Thank you for telling me.

38:12Jawad MirNo problem. You'd be surprised how big... I was talking to the author of this book, and we were talking about this, that I mean, I'm a huge Jurassic Park fan, right? But I had no fricking idea that there is a such a gigantic fan community out there, that there are Inst… Instagram accounts of people in Europe mainly, who have literally, there's, I guess these companies have got license from Amblin Universal, for Europe. So they have all these life size, like, this gigantic miniatures, authentic looking T-Rex, raptors, and some people have rooms filled of them. Like, that's all they collect. I mean, you're talking easily over $100,000 worth of stuff.

39:00Sam AvilaWow.

39:00Jawad MirYou know? And it's, it's, it's insane how much of a fan community that these films have. I just did not know. I thought Indiana Jones had it. I knew Star Wars had it. I know ET had it. But I guess Jurassic Park wasn't that old until, you know, maybe five, six, seven years ago when those people who grew up watching it became older and they started kinda getting into that again to relive their childhood.

39:22Sam AvilaOh, I mean, I feel like I'd probably be one of those people if I wasn't in the film industry, 'cause I have... This is an embarrassing thing. I have a little traveling velociraptor that I got as a PA on Dinner for Schmucks, and it was my little, my little figurine I wanted to have on my desk. That thing has traveled to, I put it on all of my movie sets. Every set I work on, I take a photo with it. That velociraptor has traveled all over the world with me, and I have photos of it on the Jurassic World set.

39:52Jawad MirThat's awesome.

39:53Sam AvilaSpeaking of being really nerdy, I haven't really told many people, but now everybody knows, so.

39:57Jawad MirNo, that's great.

39:58Sam AvilaAnd they call him Charlie, but that's not where the name Charlie came from, the dinosaur. It was just a coincidence.

40:04Jawad MirYeah, no, it's good to have those kind of things. Some, you know, s… you just get attached to some of these little, you know, whatever, miniatures or toys. And they just hold a certain significance for you, and w… whatever. It is, it is what it is. The thing, you know, if it's nerdy, it's nerdy. It's…

40:20Sam AvilaYeah.

40:20Jawad MirIt's, it is what it is.

40:22Sam AvilaCan I ask you what your favorite dinosaur is? Is that too nerdy?

40:27Jawad MirYou know, I would say T-Rex and velociraptor. And I, 'cause there was this thing that came out back in the late '90s. There was a company called, I think it still exists, Sideshow Toys.

40:43Sam AvilaOh, yes, Sideshow Collectibles. Absolutely.

40:45Jawad MirSideshow Collectibles.

40:46Sam AvilaI totally had them.

40:47Jawad MirSo they made this miniature. I remember I really wanted to get it. It was the final scene where the T-Rex was being attacked by raptors.

40:55Sam AvilaOh.

40:56Jawad MirAnd so they're on t… they're on top of him in the, where the, when dinosaurs ruled the earth sign is kinda sticking out. And at the time, it was 400 bucks. I mean, this is way back in 1999.

41:08Sam AvilaYeah.

41:08Jawad MirBeing a university student, that was a lot of money. Now that thing goes for about $2,500 because they're very rarely available, that particular one. Like, I've looked on eBay. I've, I've always wanted to own that, 'cause it's just…

41:24Sam AvilaOh, yes

41:24Jawad Mir... Such a great scene. And I mean, that scene itself has a clear, a story that it was never supposed to be in the film.

41:30Sam AvilaI didn't know this.

41:30Jawad MirSpielberg... Yeah, Spielberg thought that T-Rex, if he doesn't bring back until the end of the film, the audience is not gonna forgive him, and so he just threw that in there…

41:42Sam AvilaWhat the…

41:42Jawad MirIn the, in dur… during the production, and that, it worked. It definitely worked.

41:48Sam AvilaOh my God, yes. Yes. Thank God for that. I mean, it is, like, that is one of the scenes that everybody thinks about.

41:56Jawad MirYeah. No, it's a, it's a gr… it's a great set of trilogies. And, you know, what is one thing that you learned working on The Lost World, not The Lost World, the Jurassic World, there's so many different names, about yourself and also about the industry?

42:15Sam AvilaOh, wow. Wow. What is one thing I learned about myself? Oh, gosh. I know this sounds kinda strange, but I learned how little I actually knew at that time.

42:32Jawad MirThat sounds about right.

42:34Sam AvilaYeah, at that time I was still ver… like I said, very kinda early on in my career, and I got this big opportunity, and I did, I didn't know a lot of these really fancy programs, that people were using, drafting programs, modeling programs, 3D printing. I felt very, and still sometimes do, being like, "Oh my God, I don't kn… I've, I'm not as smart as these people." I learned a lot about materials. I became known as Sample Sam, in the office because I had so many samples of... I can't even tell you how many different kinds of materials are out there in the world. I did, I realized that I was really good resourcing…

43:18Sam Avila... Finding things and organizing and I think that was, now that I think about it, was one of the films I found my skillsets and what I was good at, and what I, what, where my strengths were. The industry as a whole…

43:34Jawad MirNice

43:35Sam Avila... Yeah, that was, I haven't really had to think about that, so thank you for that question. And then, at the industry as a whole, I think until afterwards the impact that something has, even though I grew up knowing this franchise and that big of an impact it had on me, how it's taken off, the impact that it has for the next generation, I don't think it really occurred to me quite then. I was just very excited to be on the film. The impact that we have on all these films I've done now, subsequently you start to understand that you're part of history, and it's a little scary and intimidating. Excuse me. But, and you can't be too intimidated to not do your work. And I, and I also think that…

44:28Jawad MirBut it should also be a proud moment too at the same time. Sorry to interrupt you.

44:32Sam AvilaNo, not at all. Actually, oh, extremely proud. Oh my gosh, my younger self must be beaming. I hope they're beaming and proud, and proud of me. I also think I learned on that film how nerdy we are as a film community, 'cause I always thought it was just me coming into it, being a fan, and then seeing how everyone in the department kind of slowly let their nerd doors open, and, like, shared stories or how excited they were. You know, I thought I was just like, "Okay, stay professional," and then you would be talking to somebody and they're like, "This is really freaking cool, right? Like, we're building a paddock for raptors," and you're like, "It is cool. Can we say it's cool together? Can we share this?" And then realizing, oh no, there's... We're all, we're all artists and we're all professional and we work in film, but we're all such fans of these franchises and fans of each other's work too. And I don't know, 'cause I, that was probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest kind of big blockbuster, quote, films, and, hadn't had that experience yet, and I think that was m… my first door in to see the impact and see the kind of people, really see them as not just coworkers, but as human beings who are also very much influenced by something that they love and it means a lot to them.

45:58Sam AvilaAnd means that you have a duty to fans as well, e… even in the art department, of all the little Easter eggs and all the little details. We have a service to the audience still, to deliver something meaningful and impactful, I think.

46:20Jawad MirThat sounds, that sounds awesome. I'm just gonna sort of wrap it up with two questions, more or less. One, when you saw Jurassic World the first time on the big screen… ... And y… the stuff that you worked on, aside from the film itself, right, the stuff that you worked on.

46:39Jawad MirDo you remember the emotions or the feeling or the words that went through your mind?

46:44Sam AvilaI'm pretty sure I cried because I'm very emotional, in a good way.

46:50Jawad MirRight.

46:50Sam AvilaBut I think just cried out of just all those feelings of I've made it, my childhood self, you know, just being able to see that and like, you know, think of myself as a kid again. I think the f… the moment watching, I think we were with a whole crew of people, so it's different when you're watching…

47:11Sam Avila... With a crew. Everybody's very excited and supportive.

47:15Jawad MirRight

47:15Sam Avila... I think I was probably just big dumb smile on my face, just like so excited and thrilled that I was surrounded by these incredible people, that we went through this journey together and we're seeing our work on screen, and there's my name on a Jurassic film. Like, I think…

47:34Jawad MirThat's the moment

47:35Sam Avila... It was the moment that I was like, oh my God, the opening credits with, like, the Universal logo and the Jurassic. I know that my heart was just all aflutter, 'cause it meant, it meant so much. It still means so much to me.

47:50Jawad MirOf course.

47:51Sam AvilaAnd you asking that makes me take me back to be like, yeah, I think I was just elated beyond, I don't know what the right word for it is. I'm gonna fi… I'm gonna research this and find what this word is…... Where it's kind of this, like, full circle feeling from childhood moment that influenced you to go into film and the art department to your name on this project for a ne… another generation. I don't even know. Elation.

48:19Jawad MirI get it. I get it.

48:20Sam AvilaYeah.

48:22Jawad MirBut would the circ… do you think the circle... I'm, I'm guessing your circle is complete, but it would be more complete if you work, got to work on an actual Spielberg film and work directly…... With him?

48:33Sam AvilaYes. Oh, God, just saying that, oh my God, yes. Some of my friends got to work on The Fabelmans, and I was like, "That's so cool." and I know it's not just me out there who feels like this. He's, he…

48:46Jawad MirOh, everybody does

48:47Sam Avila... Such high regard. Gosh, yeah, I g… I guess because you know what? He was one of the f… he actually was the very first name I noticed in credits. Like, you know, when you're four or five years old, you don't understand how films work, and it was the first time I was like, "Directed by," and there's a person's name.

49:09Jawad MirAnd you know, I find that interesting, sorry, because w… with the exception of, I think, Raiders… ... Temple of the Doom, and Last Crusade, every film that he directed, and maybe E.T.… ... His name comes right, like, they don't, you don't see his name in the beginning credits. You just see the film title and the logo.

49:30Sam AvilaYes.

49:31Jawad MirAnd the first name that comes at the credits is Steven Spielberg, and that's, I think, that sits in people's memory more at the end when the film wraps up, and then you, they put…

49:40Sam AvilaOh

49:40Jawad Mir... Everything together. You know?

49:43Sam AvilaThat's a good point.

49:43Jawad MirAnd I…

49:43Sam AvilaI hadn't thought about that

49:44Jawad Mir... And I think that's why, I don't know if he made that choice of doing it, and I think it, that's what I do now too. Like, I never put my name in the beginning. You know, it's always at the very end. Because people need to understand that it's not about you only. It's just about the film, and then the team comes in.

50:01Sam AvilaYeah. Wow, gosh, I didn't think about that, but you're absolutely right, that it's more impact… I, might be more impactful that way. Very cool.

50:08Jawad MirYeah. Well, thank you so much, Sam. This was an awesome conversation. I mean, we talked about a whole lots of stuff. I truly enjoyed it.

50:17Sam AvilaYes, same. Thank you

50:18Jawad Mir... And good luck with Superman. I don't know when it's coming out, pending the situation, but whenever it does, or maybe even before that, we can chat.

50:29Sam AvilaYeah, I would love to. Thank you so much. As you could tell, I could talk for hours about Jurassic. Like, I'm so, there's so many incredible stories. But, again, just shout out to all the incredible art directors, designer I worked with, there's, and our construction team, our set dec team, like, just amazing people that I feel like I learned so much from, and I feel very humble.

50:53Jawad MirI hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for watching and listening. Don't forget to subscribe, like, share, and comment, and do come back for another episode. Until then, have a great day.